Curse

faraaz · Jun 15, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

Can we try without PvE Skills nor buffs? XDDDDDDDDD

No. The entire topic is about sustainable DPS in PvE. No PvE skills in PvE is like using Discord builds without Discord...

Anyway, the point being. Warriors got owned.

360° · Jun 15, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

I actually did a quick test simply using Golden Fox Strike>Wild Strike>Death Blossom, and with those three only I came up with ~125 DPS over 3 seconds.

12char

Jaigoda · Jun 15, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Okay, let's also use no secondary, no elite, and only one attribute. And completely unmodded weapons. And no heroes, only henchmen. And any other possible restriction that you'd never have when playing PvE.

EDIT:
@360, I dealt 374 damage in 3 seconds. That's 124 DPS. That's more than an MS>DB's regular DPS. That means that even if you don't make it to Moebius, you're still dealing a lot of damage, and recharge fast enough to not need MS's recharge.

Picuso · Jun 15, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

No. The entire topic is about sustainable DPS in PvE. No PvE skills in PvE is like using Discord builds without Discord...

That's not totally true, but w/e.

You can eat your cookie now XD

faraaz · Jun 15, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Excuses, excuses. Victory is sweet.

toocooltang · Jun 15, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

farazz please add aura of holy might to your bar kthx

Picuso · Jun 15, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

farazz please add aura of holy might to your bar kthx

AoHM is his 3rd skill (Kurzick Icon) kkthx

AtomicMew · Jun 15, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

You obviously do not understand dervishes. Yes, the health is a tad bit helpful, but there's only a few short-lived enchantments that you'll be using. RoF is rarely used now, so it's mostly like Patient and Guardian, and Orders if you're bringing it (which is baed, because you should be running Sab/Discord). Vital Boon is a bad skill that does little for the slot. The majority of Dervs never run it. And anyway, a melee's purpose is to provide damage; if a Derv brings Balth or Dwayna avvy, that's a big decrease in damage when you could be bringing Lyssa, WS, or Zealous Vow. If you're running Avvy Balth, I dare you to try and find a build that can come close to MS>DB or Critscythe DPS.

The point about getting health back is that it helps in tanking. ALOT. Especially when when you're getting stripped at the same time. Also, l2r... I never said it Dwayna/Balth?melandru helps DPS... . I said it helps TANKING. Either way, I wouldn't take either, since Grenth is arguably the best option for derv available, atm. (If you're not taking advantage of permavatar as a derv, you're doing something very wrong.)

Quote:

So in other words, DS+SY essentially has a 15-25 second downtime every 45 seconds where it can't maintain its normal (and already less than MS>DB) DPS?

First of all, the fight should be more or less over by the time FGJ ends. Second of all, if you're that worried about down time, just take AoS.

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CD is a good option, and I don't have troubles fitting it on my bar (considering I use bar-compressing skills like Golden Phoenix Strike). MS>DB takes, like, 4 skills, so it's not THAT hard to fit stuff in.

GPS... wow.

Quote:

Another thing to mention - just about every warrior build uses Flail, which gives a -33% IMS. While Enraging cancels it, it has a 20s recharge, meaning you can't spam it whenever. Chasing moving foes (very common against a lot of melees) or even simply switching targets is harder with Wars because of this. And I don't know about you, but I know of a lot more areas where enemies moving is a problem than is heavy enchantment removal (you're going to have to have at least 3 enchant removals to get rid of CA if you're smart).

Moving foes isn't a problem if you aggro properly. That's the entire idea behind tanking. It's just not a problem if you aren't lazy. Also, if you really cared, you could take brawling headbutt and just knocklock it. (Knockdown foes cannot move FYI.) Enchantment removal's going to be a problem in a LOT of areas no matter how lazy or not lazy you play.

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MS>DB has 96AL. DS+SY has a mean of 106AL. That's pretty much the same damn amount. They're both very tankable, and are going to give the monks ample time to react. Also, utility means little when you can straight kill just about anything within 5 seconds. And Godmode warrior has less DPS, meaning you can't kill stuff as fast, meaning the monks have to keep stuff up for longer.

First of all, 5 seconds a kill is hella slow, dude. What are you even running? Secondly it's not "pretty much the same", 106 AL is 16% less damage than 96 AL. Also, it's 116 AL, not 106.

Also, it's 70 armor, not 96 without enchantments, which is going to happen in tougher areas.

Quote:

I'm arguing against your argument itself, not your word usage. You say yourself that inter-profession comparisons should not be used, and I gave an argument against it. Enchantment usage and slight differences in defense are differences, but do not warrant the two uncomparable.

You said that I thought it was valid to compare a sin MS/DB with a sin caster. Don't be coy, that's obviously not what I was arguing.

Edit:

Quote:

GPS>DB>MS is easily going to do as much or more DPS as MS>autoattack>DB>MS>autoattack>DB>MS. If you hit all three, maybe with a second MS after everything's been recharged, you have mutliple back-to-back attack skills with no autoattacks in between. I actually did a quick test simply using Golden Fox Strike>Wild Strike>Death Blossom, and with those three only I came up with ~125 DPS over 3 seconds. So yeah, your point is moot.

The point he was making is that with GPS, you're not always going to land MS<50 to recharge it. Shit happens, your target might die pre-maturely, or you might hit it at >50 and kill it on the next DB. That's going to drop your DPS by a LOT.

That's also why lead - offhand > GPS.

TryingToVanquish · Jun 15, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Hi Guys,

Before I start, I must give a bit of background.

I have never actually made or played a Warrior before this. I was actually experimenting with SY! + TNTF! on my Paragon (not too much tho, he's still in Kourna, and that place is too easy to tell if you are really making a difference or not), and that got me thinking to try the DragonSlash + SY! warrior.

Somewhere along the way, I realised that my Warrior was lvl 16 and still hadn't died a single time (go me!

) so I decided to make him my Survivor character too. At the moment, she just reached r1 Survivor and is now going about doing all the necessary housekeeping to get up to speed (unlocking heroes, getting full AL armor, buying skills, capping key elites etc).

Now...keeping this in mind, I have some questions for you:

1) The damage per second of the DS + SY! warrior is around 30-40, based on my very basic experiments in Isle of the Nameless. Is this correct? Seems a bit..low.

2) Most of the time, I find that my Warrior is up front, holding aggro and putting the beat down on enemies (as any decent Warrior should). Unfortunately, what this means is that sometimes half my party dont get the benefit of SY! Especially the monks who are always hanging back...again, like any decent monk should!

In this case..how do good warriors micro manage to get maximum benefit from SY!?

3) The build I have been using is as follows:

[build;OQMSEZKTLOTNnimaxgGWXF5V]

I'm a factions char, so I couldnt choose /P for my secondary (for Enduring Harmony). Ascending for /P and getting Enduring Harmony is my first priority at the moment, but until then..do you think this build is ok? Any recommendations for change, considering I'm a W/Mo, unascended?

4) What are the recommended IAS skills? I know Flail is a contender, but I find that the 33% IMS reduction and adrenaline requirement are annoying...perhaps because I am inexperienced Warrior...I've been experimenting with Flurry. I am aware of using Frenzy + a cancel stance, but to be honest, using Frenzy on a survivor character makes me feel very nervous.

5) What are your recommendations for Armor insignia? I'm going to be purchasing a Sup. Vigor rune, a minor Strength rune, 1 sup. absorption rune and 1 Stonefist Insignia (for the Brawling Headbutt KD). Other than these...what are your recommendations? 20e is a bit low for spamming stances and Flurry but I dont want to resort to Radiant armor (blech). I'm experimenting with a Sword with +5e, +30hp on it (stolen from my monk

) and that's going ok..but otherwise, how are attune runes on warriors?

Wow...that was a huge post. But yeah, I had a lot to get off my chest. All comments appreciated!

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10308778

Just because you have absolutely no skill at using warrior, it doesn't mean the profession is crap. 30 dmg D-slash? It gives the word "noob" a whole new meaning.

Ha ha ha. Seeing as how its already proven that D-slash warrior > DB/MS sin, in before "BuT my critscythesszz pwnnnzzzz u XD omg yayyy"

Protip:

Quote:

2. Stop talking about scythes. Armor-sensitive damage = poo. End of story. Doesn't matter which class is wielding it, they're still mediocre. To make matters worse, AoHM (and avatar forms) coverts your damage type, so you can't share in many of those great intra-team synergies.

Quote by Chthon.

I was running a A/D, sure the damage looks nice on MoD but the damage isn't anywhere near it in HM. I lose out on SY!, the most overpowered utility as well. I play with humans, and they appreciate the utility much more so they tell me to run Dagger/SY!.

Keep trying guys.

faraaz · Jun 15, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Look at the date of the post lol...my Warrior is Leg Survivor atm, with r10 most EoTN rep titles...people learn given time ^^

Instead of trolling & making personal attacks, wouldn't you rather try to prove the numbers wrong?

Forgotton200 · Jun 15, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

In response to the past posts...

Forgotton200: Stop playing NM and find some real mobs. And if you're barely dealing damage before things die, then why the hell does it matter? Anyway, running regular Sabway I almost never have troubles while using Golden Phoenix>DB>MS before something dies. And again, DS gives you a -33% IMS while using Flail (with a 20s recharge cancel stance), which means since everything's dying so fast you're going to spend most of your time switching targets, not attacking. How's that for efficiency? Why don't you go back to farming Mountain Trolls since that's all you can do effectively?

Almost missed this post in the wall of text that proves nothing.

NM? Where did I say NM? Things die in a second in HM, but you aren't as great as me so you'll never experience this. Also, I don't use Flail, I use candies for a IAS because it saves me a skill slot. I abuse all farming builds, that means I have a perma sin, RoJ monk, CoP mesmer. Don't put me in the same IQ level as yours, naruto fanboy. I'm making as much as cash as you while being superior in general PvE and high-end PvP as a warrior. It's nice we can reroll PvP characters and I'm sure you run warrior as well if you do high-end PvP as a frontline, think again why you're running it. Because:

Warrior > Assassin.

Quote:

Protip:
Quote:
2. Stop talking about scythes. Armor-sensitive damage = poo. End of story. Doesn't matter which class is wielding it, they're still mediocre. To make matters worse, AoHM (and avatar forms) coverts your damage type, so you can't share in many of those great intra-team synergies.
Quote by Chthon.

I was running a A/D, sure the damage looks nice on MoD but the damage isn't anywhere near it in HM. I lose out on SY!, the most overpowered utility as well. I play with humans, and they appreciate the utility much more so they tell me to run Dagger/SY!.

Keep trying guys.

Quote:

You're only worth arguing with for the comedy of it.

As long as Warriors push out more utility with the DPS being better under certain circumstances, they'll be better at both.

Jaigoda · Jun 16, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Sigh.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

The point about getting health back is that it helps in tanking. ALOT. Especially when when you're getting stripped at the same time. Also, l2r... I never said it Dwayna/Balth?melandru helps DPS... . I said it helps TANKING. Either way, I wouldn't take either, since Grenth is arguably the best option for derv available, atm. (If you're not taking advantage of permavatar as a derv, you're doing something very wrong.)

10-14 health every few seconds is approximately the equivalent of Mending. And you actually think Grenth is the best thing a PvE derv can do? Have ever even heard of Wounding Strike? Avvy Lyssa? Zealous Vow (spamming 3-4s recharge skills with .5 or .75 activations is gud.)? Grenth is essentially a crappy damage buff that takes your elite and requires two skills to maintain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

First of all, the fight should be more or less over by the time FGJ ends. Second of all, if you're that worried about down time, just take AoS.

First, you're suggesting a fourth PvE skill (BH, SY, AScan), which is impossible. Second, this is about maintainable DPS, not how much DPS you can do until your downtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

GPS... wow.

GPS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Avvy Grenth

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Moving foes isn't a problem if you aggro properly. That's the entire idea behind tanking. It's just not a problem if you aren't lazy. Also, if you really cared, you could take brawling headbutt and just knocklock it. (Knockdown foes cannot move FYI.) Enchantment removal's going to be a problem in a LOT of areas no matter how lazy or not lazy you play.

BH reduces your DPS dramatically, considering it does like 50 damage over .75 seconds, which is around 65 DPS at that point (which means that if you're KDlocking something you're only going to be dealing like 75 DPS max). And it's gonna take some hella work (and time) to get stuff to ball up completely, meaning the vast majority of time you'll have to move when you switch targets (caster+melee groups means things are inevitably spread out). And AGAIN, enchantment removal is not a big problem, and only in a few areas do I ever have a problem with it (and that's in an enchantment-light party, btw).

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

First of all, 5 seconds a kill is hella slow, dude. What are you even running? Secondly it's not "pretty much the same", 106 AL is 16% less damage than 96 AL. Also, it's 116 AL, not 106.

Also, it's 70 armor, not 96 without enchantments, which is going to happen in tougher areas.

Within 5 seconds means less than 5 seconds. And for an average Sabway group, 3-4 seconds is pretty standard. Also, 16% less damage from armor-affected sources is not going to make much of a difference overall. And it's 106AL, not 116, considering that you have 80 against elemental, for an average of 106 with shield. And if you include armor insigs for Sentinel's, then Sins have 111 armor with Nightstalkers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

You said that I thought it was valid to compare a sin MS/DB with a sin caster. Don't be coy, that's obviously not what I was arguing.

I didn't say anything about what you thought. I said your argument allowed comparisons between builds that shouldn't be compared, and didn't allow ones that should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

The point he was making is that with GPS, you're not always going to land MS<50 to recharge it. Shit happens, your target might die pre-maturely, or you might hit it at >50 and kill it on the next DB. That's going to drop your DPS by a LOT.

That's also why lead - offhand > GPS.

It's up to the player to decide when to use skills and when not to. If something's going to die in 1-2 hits, then there's no point in attacking it anyway; move on to the next target, the heroes/players will finish it and you can get a head start on the next one. Yes, you have to play smart with GPS, and in shitty areas where everything dies too fast, you do need to bring Golden Fox>Golden Fang instead. That doesn't mean GPS is a bad skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

Almost missed this post in the wall of text that proves nothing.

NM? Where did I say NM? Things die in a second in HM, but you aren't as great as me so you'll never experience this. Also, I don't use Flail, I use candies for a IAS because it saves me a skill slot. I abuse all farming builds, that means I have a perma sin, RoJ monk, CoP mesmer. Don't put me in the same IQ level as yours, naruto fanboy. I'm making as much as cash as you while being superior in general PvE and high-end PvP as a warrior. It's nice we can reroll PvP characters and I'm sure you run warrior as well if you do high-end PvP as a frontline, think again why you're running it. Because:

Warrior > Assassin.

So if things die in one second in HM, why the hell is there even an argument? If that were the case, anything that could autoattack would work perfectly fine. And rock candies are a pretty terrible argument because very few people are actually willing to use consumables in general PvE. Let's see here... Blah blah blah, farming crap, random insult that I already explained against, some stupid elitism not relative to the topic.. Wait, you're using PvP warriors as an argument for PvE warriors? Wow. First, monsters aren't nearly as smart as humans and thus are much less likely to shut down an assassin, one of their main problems. Second, Assassins are one of the best professions to abuse PvE skills, which obviously aren't available in PvP. If this transfered over, then ele's would replace PvP monks as healers due to ER and rangers would be much more useful than they are now in PvE. Fact is, they're completely seperate, and using arguments from the PvP side for PvE is laughable.

Forgotton200 · Jun 16, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

So if things die in one second in HM, why the hell is there even an argument? If that were the case, anything that could autoattack would work perfectly fine. Wrong. All other party member is attacking the called target which results in fast death. Restarting combo on this called target isn't efficient.

And rock candies are a pretty terrible argument because very few people are actually willing to use consumables in general PvE. Wrong, it saves a skill slot, good warriors use it. You're stuck to using the PvE skill + skill slot or you wouldn't have +AL which means you're a fragile target. I use it all the time. I know other warriors who uses it as well.

Let's see here... Blah blah blah, farming crap, random insult that I already explained against, some stupid elitism not relative to the topic.. Wait, you're using PvP warriors as an argument for PvE warriors? Wrong, what I'm saying is, warriors > assassins in everything except farming. Assassins are just weak, period. Smart people plays efficiently, which means they'll have the meta farming profession as alt, which means we lose nothing.

Wow. First, monsters aren't nearly as smart as humans and thus are much less likely to shut down an assassin, one of their main problems. No sh*t sherlock. I played assassins for a long time, I know well that the PvE mobs like to target me to strip enchantments off often. Are you trying to say that you could cast your enchantments, run into a mob and not worry about enchantment stripping? Don't be stupid, it'll get stripped unless you take your time while a warrior is already in pounding the mobs.

Second, Assassins are one of the best professions to abuse PvE skills, which obviously aren't available in PvP. If this transfered over, then ele's would replace PvP monks as healers due to ER and rangers would be much more useful than they are now in PvE. Fact is, they're completely seperate, and using arguments from the PvP side for PvE is laughable. Doesn't change the fact that warrior > assassin. Let me say it again since you don't understand it too well, warrior > assassin in high-end PvP and general PvE. Not on topic for PvP, but I'm merely summarizing the two professions of this game..

Yawn, another pointless wall of text. Don't be full of yourselves assassins, know your place. That's right, below the warriors. You should actually play this game, you'll learn a lot. Waiting here on the next reply to get shut-downed again by great o' me.

Snow Bunny · Jun 16, 2009, 12:45 AM // 00:45

You will never get the Moebius chain off. With all the buffs you throw on in PvE, the mobs will die before you get Death Blossom off.

Jaigoda, you're so wrong on so many accounts it's really quite impossible to rip them all apart.

Faraaz's sin build might win, but no one really cares. It's a silly one-shot gimmick.

The Dragon-Slasher will ultimately prove to be more maintainable and more resilient, and deal comparable if not higher damage to the death blossomer, meaning it's better.

AtomicMew · Jun 16, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

*snip*

Take a step back. Calma.

Look at what you are saying.

Your argument relies on the fact that sins have similar tanking ability as a warrior. Please be honest. In high end PvE, you should know this to be not the case. I've done a few DoA HM balanced runs with a few guilds, and we always bring an ES warrior. An assassin tank would not even be considered. Yes, it's true, a sin has more damage potential (e.g. MoD), but the warrior sacrifices that for defense and util, and in a realistic high end PvE situation, a warrior will be doing more damage and more for the team than a sin.

The sin is a paper dragon, and probably blows the warrior out the water in easier areas in terms of pure speed. In high end PvE and tough dungeons, the warrior simply outclasses the sin.

Perfected Shadow · Jun 16, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Personally as sin in pve, unless it's a priority target, or I'm running Crit Scythe, I do NOT attack the same target as my party. I take down other shit to maximize MS/DB.

Also I think the discussion should only involve skillbars, why bring candies/consumables into it?

Not every place has serious enchant removal.

Everyone seems to be saying stuff dies very fast, so the discussion has moved on to burst as opposed to maintainable dps? In that case Crit Scythe is very strong there (don't forget DW every 3 seconds).

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

and in a realistic high end PvE situation, a warrior will be doing more damage and more for the team than a sin.

More for the team sure, but more damage? Why because sins are fragile and they'll die? In realistic high end, I'm pretty sure you would have 1 or more copies of SY + capable prots/heals and then sins are not so fragile anymore.

It is really hard to compare dps in pve situations without numbers. Which is why I wish there was a combat log, and addons that can parse it to show the numbers (like in WoW :/)

Forgotton200 · Jun 16, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

Everyone seems to be saying stuff dies very fast, so the discussion has moved on to burst as opposed to maintainable dps? In that case Crit Scythe is very strong there (don't forget DW every 3 seconds).

Quote:

2. Stop talking about scythes. Armor-sensitive damage = poo. End of story. Doesn't matter which class is wielding it, they're still mediocre. To make matters worse, AoHM (and avatar forms) coverts your damage type, so you can't share in many of those great intra-team synergies.
Quote by Chthon.

I was running a A/D, sure the damage looks nice on MoD but the damage isn't anywhere near it in HM. I lose out on SY!, the most overpowered utility as well. I play with humans, and they appreciate the utility much more so they tell me to run Dagger/SY!.

Keep trying guys.

Quote:

You're only worth arguing with for the comedy of it.

As long as Warriors push out more utility with the DPS being better under certain circumstances, they'll be better at both.

Looks like you missed this.

Limit to skillbars? Why would I want to gimp myself? I use candies in general PvE all the time. No reason for me to limit myself and waste a skill slot.

RadaArashi · Jun 16, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

I don't find enchantment removal to be a huge issue, considering the only two areas I've had problems with it are that one Lagoon full of Wind Riders that rape your party with Conjure Phantasm and Cry of Frustration and Bloodstone Caves, with the Incubus doing that one Soulrending Shriek thing.

And second of all yes, GPS-DB-Moebius is quite not a good idea in NM, where its common to not be able to pull Moebius in time cause you and your H/H are going around the mobs like a hot knife through butter, IMO you're better off using an Assassin's Promise build in these cases that lets you take out 1/3 of the group by yourself on at the time. Or use Lead-Off-DB-Moebius if you really want it. GPS-DB-Moebius shines mostly in HM, where you deal armor ignoring damage every 2 seconds and the enemy is more durable so you're able to get to the recharge part in 99% of cases.

speedy21589 · Jun 16, 2009, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

2. Stop talking about scythes. Armor-sensitive damage = poo. End of story. Doesn't matter which class is wielding it, they're still mediocre. To make matters worse, AoHM (and avatar forms) coverts your damage type, so you can't share in many of those great intra-team synergies.
Quote by Chthon.

I agree with the damage conversion argument, but I don't understand why "armor-sensitive" damage only applies to scythes and not swords, etc.

If this is referring to the huge damage range of scythes (9-41), I believe that with 15 in Crit strikes, Critical Eye, and Way of the Master, you have a 62% chance to crit (not counting the additional % chance from 12 points in scythe mastery), which means the distribution is going to be incredibly lopsided towards the upper end of that damage range.

If it's referring to lack of +damage from skills, I see that scythes are at a disadvantage, but doesn't the sheer increased number of crits make up for this? (I guess some hard numbers would be better to answer that)

(and yes, I'm only referring to a scythesin for the above)

Tenebrae · Jun 16, 2009, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

Personally as sin in pve, unless it's a priority target, or I'm running Crit Scythe, I do NOT attack the same target as my party. I take down other shit to maximize MS/DB.

Also I think the discussion should only involve skillbars, why bring candies/consumables into it?

CritScythe Sin is brutal , no doubt about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

Not every place has serious enchant removal.

Everyone seems to be saying stuff dies very fast, so the discussion has moved on to burst as opposed to maintainable dps? In that case Crit Scythe is very strong there (don't forget DW every 3 seconds).

Yeah but now all sins haters are saying that ench removal prevails 99% of the game. Thats why 55 hp chars farm more than half of the game ....

oh wait ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

More for the team sure, but more damage? Why because sins are fragile and they'll die? In realistic high end, I'm pretty sure you would have 1 or more copies of SY + capable prots/heals and then sins are not so fragile anymore.

Dont pay attention to that , there is more rage than reason on those words. Its like "yeah your football team is better but my boots are cooler than yours" .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

It is really hard to compare dps in pve situations without numbers. Which is why I wish there was a combat log, and addons that can parse it to show the numbers (like in WoW :/)

That would be great , it would give good examples of dps on most pve areas so sin haters dont take examples from "high end zones" that are almost empty like DOA ..... pfff like what happens there was a GOOD REFLECTION of the entire game lol .